The Permesso di Soggiorno – Don’t Expect Speedy Processing!

The permesso di soggiorno is essential for stays of longer than 90 days.

The permesso di soggiorno is essential for stays of longer than 90 days.

I am waiting for my fourth permesso di soggiorno. Each year the processing time gets longer and longer. Well, at least it has been for many expats in Umbria going through the Perugia office. My first year took three and a half months. Second year was four months. Third year was four and a half months. And this year already I’m closing in on five months. I have friends who waited six months. Keep in mind the permesso has a year’s validity. Sure you can tote around the post office receipt and application code, which is “supposed” to be a valid holdover until your new card arrives. But depending on where you are in Italy, not having the card can cause all sorts of mischief. For example, for your tessera sanitaria, national healthcare coverage, you may be required to keep going back to the ASL office to get an extension. Again, it depends on who you’re dealing with. It is my understanding that all that is required is your application receipt.

And so, I give myself the advice that I dole out so often in all matters of Italian bureaucracy…

Be prepared to wait, and wait…

I was having lunch just a week ago with fellow American expats, and I confirmed that they, too, were waiting longer than normal. I thought this was a country wide problem, but I’m told other regions have much speedier processing times. Normal timing is “supposed” to be two and a half months. I thought I was being proactive by getting way out in front of the renewal by a couple of months. That strategy isn’t working.

The other puzzling matter is that of the carta di soggiorno, which is a permanent stay permit that you are “supposed” to be able to get after living in Italy for five full years. Rumor has it that if your working work with the region of Perugia, they aren’t giving these out. Instead they insist on a yearly renewal of the basic permesso di soggiorno.

Supposedly other regions issue them without a problem. Frankly, I don’t know, and I plan to do more research, which I will share with you when I have a better understanding.

Soon I will be moving my residency to Treviso, and already I’m finding the Comune incredibly helpful and buttoned up. Hopefully I’ll find that everything buzzes along with greater precision and speed. Time will tell.

Umbria is a wonderful place to live. My experiences with the people have been fantastic, and the police at the questura always have been wonderful. But, I think the backend bureaucracy is unduly burdened for some reason. Perhaps it’s government cutbacks, or perhaps they are buried with managing the stay permits for all of the immigrants flooding into the country from North Africa.

If you’re moving to another region of Italy I urge you to

Research your particular area to see if you can get an idea of permesso processing times and the types of stay permits they’re willing to issue (and why).

Then, you can manage your expectations accordingly. If your experience is anything like mine, you’ll find getting the straight story on the whole permesso di soggiorno process frustratingly elusive. I think this is because it is administered with great inconsistency.

Still the basics of what you will need to make your application ARE fairly consistent, and I urge you to read my earlier post that provides great detail as to navigating the process.

These are my personal experiences and they should not serve as a substitute for your own inquiries with the proper Italian agencies regarding their regulations.

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By |2016-11-13T17:50:31+01:00August 30th, 2016|Uncategorized|69 Comments

About the Author:

I’m an American expat living in Italy!

69 Comments

  1. Golbarg November 25, 2019 at 10:23 pm - Reply

    Hey there. I have been to Treviso Questura for my permesso and today on the website, it said that my permesso is ready for delivery. Based on your experience, do you have any ideas how many more days do I have to wait before I can actually get my permesso card?
    Thanks in advance

    • Jed November 27, 2019 at 2:41 pm - Reply

      Hello! Usually, you’ll hear from the questura via SMS withing a week or two of having seen the “ready for delivery” notice. If I remember correctly, when I saw that my carta di soggiorno was ready, I waited a few days but didn’t receive the message. Then I went to the questura, showed them the message, and was directed to the window for pickups. You might want to do the same if you haven’t received a message within a few days.

      • Raza November 30, 2019 at 7:24 pm - Reply

        Hi jed I have a question I gave my finger print 14 May in questura di lambrate and now 7 months I am waiting for my pds can you tell me what should I do please

        • Jed December 2, 2019 at 1:14 pm - Reply

          Hi Raza, have you checked the website https://questure.poliziadistato.it/stranieri/ by entering the number on your receipt (be careful to enter the right number since there are two different numbers)? If it says “being processed” or “under discussion” those are pretty much the same thing and usually signifies that things are dragging along as they are in many other regions. This really is an unfortunate situation to put new residents through these hoops for a document that is valid only for a year yet by the time a person receives it the validity is almost finished. What I did when my permesso was taking longer than it should, was to contact the regional office (in my case, it Was Perugia) and speak with someone who told me exactly where it was in the process and assured me there was no problem (just bureaucracy slowness). You can also go to where is designated as your regional office (not the local questura because they can’t get to the more detailed level of information).

  2. Vic October 29, 2019 at 5:49 pm - Reply

    HI… I have read the comments but I have a couple of questions. As an American i will fly from Italy to NY direct planning to entering to Italy with the receipt I got when I applied for my Permesso Soggiorno. My question is.. I will be leaving the US before 90 days as I was told. Would I have any problems exiting the US? would they ask me for documentation other than my passport? What if the initial Italian visa I obtained expired? Would I have to show it before leaving the US? I understand entering Italy directly from a US city with the receipt would not be a problem.

    How often can travel to the US with just the receipt? Does it have an expiration date?

    My second question is… the rime it takes to get the permesso soggiorno. If by the time I get it has expired? I guess I have to start the renewal process this time?

    I have been waiting already for 5 months, IF when the permesso is ready I am not in Italy, Can I just go directly to la questura to pick it up?

    • Jed November 12, 2019 at 1:37 pm - Reply

      Hi Vic, Sorry for the tardy reply. It’s exasperating how long it currently is taking to process the permesso di soggiorno. The receipt doesn’t actually function for you during your very first application, at least for departing the U.S. The airlines look for either a return flight to the U.S. within 90 days (some people purchase a fully refundable ticket just for this reason) or a document that shows you are allowed to stay. What SHOULD function for you is the elective residency visa that is still in your passport and should still have validity. Once I had my permesso and then got my residency card, that’s what I showed Delta airlines and that seemed to work. In actuality they should ask for a valid permesso di soggiorno in addition. Entering Italy isn’t the issue. It can be the airline upon departure since they don’t want to have to foot the bill to return you if they haven’t ascertained that you have valid “stay” documents. The permesso receipt only functions for Italy. The U.S. has no way to check is validity. Other EU countries also don’t accept the permesso receipt.
      Sorry this isn’t an easier process!

  3. ehis August 20, 2019 at 5:29 pm - Reply

    Pls i live in Abruzzo, Pescara. I just finger printed a month ago and i dont know when the PDM will be ready anf this is my First document i want i know how long it fakes to get ready. Pls

    • Jed August 30, 2019 at 9:13 am - Reply

      I wish I could offer an estimate for you but each region seems to process these things at a different pace. Overall, the permesso process seems to be getting longer, which is why more people are queueing up well in advance of their renewal date to help offset this. Bruzzo tends to be a bit more efficient than regions like Umbria (from anecdotal stories I’ve heard). Still, I wouldn’t bank on your PDM being ready before three months.

  4. Khashayar Jenabi July 26, 2019 at 11:54 pm - Reply

    Hi Jed
    I must say, you are such a nice man to answer all people with patience. Not many will do so, and it shows your Depth of humanity and prestige. Thank you!
    I have little question that i believe with your experience, i can find a better answer to it.
    I have applied for carta di soggiorno after 5 years living in Italy, paying a year of tax with permesso di lavoro autonomo. All my document god accepted and they told me that the card will be ready within 3 months after finger print. Its 3 months and 10 days so far and there is no news. I have checked with questura triple times within 2 weeks, and once they said there is a communication that must happen soon, and other two times they said, there is no communication and they are still waiting for decision. As you know the website is written: the Carta di soggiorno is being processed, Or in Italian in trattazione.
    The experience of 5 years in Italy, showed me that they are not precise on these things at all.

    Therefore, i would like to know about your opinion. How long would it take to receive the answer or better say, i should wait?!
    Can something happen randomly and they stop the process? Or what should i do in this case?
    Can i return to my country with recevuta paper after 6 months? (its passed sixth months from the time i sent my documents)

    Finally, thanks again for your care and response.

    Regards
    Khash

    • Jed July 29, 2019 at 1:54 pm - Reply

      Hi Khash, As you say, these things are imprecise with Italian bureaucracy. In which region of Italy are you a resident? Some regions (like Umbria) are notoriously tardy in processing, while others (like Veneto) are much more dependable.
      As long as you see that the carta is being processed, I would take comfort in that. If you travel to your home country and your travel is direct, the receipt “should” suffice for entry into Italy. The issue is on the departing end from your home country. Usually, they ask for a document that shows you are allowed to stay in the destination country if you don’t have a return ticket booked. I show my carta di soggiorna AND my carta di identitá and that has worked.
      My carta took about 45 days in Treviso, but mine was because I have an Italian spouse. You might want to do an online search for “your region + carta di soggiorno processing times.” That may yield some posts regarding recent experiences in your area.
      Hopefully you will receive your carta soon! Jed

  5. Janin July 14, 2019 at 11:27 pm - Reply

    Hi Jed! thank you so much for being so kind and sharing your experience.

    I did a Master course in Milan for 1 year, I graduated and after that I have applied for my second permesso di soggiorno in June 10th 2019 , but for searching a job(which they give 1 year opportunity to find a job). They told me I will receive the message from 3 to 1 months. So I booked my ticket before a month for July 20th. I gave a plus 10 days to make sure it arrives. But till now I didn’t had a message, and there are 6 days left to leave Italy. I’m Armenian, so no Shengenian zone, but I have transit from Ukraine which is not a Shengen zone too.

    My university told me that I can go with the receipt, passport and expired permesso provvisorio(since I went to Paris and had to do the provvisorio for June(for one month and it is also expired), they took my old permesso di soggiorno to give me to provvisorio).
    I’m not concerned from Italy, for sure they will let me out because they know their documents, but could it be a problem in Ukrain or Armenia that they won’t let me come back? even if I have applied for it and have the receipt?

    If you know any information about these stuff will be very helpful to share it!
    Thank you so much! best of luck to you in what you do!

    • Jed July 16, 2019 at 9:39 am - Reply

      Hi Janin, I think I understand your dilemma, which is your return trip and when you check in. Like in the U.S. I’m sure they (the airline) will want to see a document (one they understand) that shows you can stay in Italy IF you don’t have a return ticket to show that you’ll be returning within 90 days. What I’m not clear about is whether each country tracks the days you’ve been in a specific country. I would think, though I’m far from certain, only the arriving countries would be monitoring that and would be asking for documentation. If you’re arriving in Italy, then you’d show your expired permesso and renewal receipt (if asked – many times they only want to see your passport).
      Any time I’ve flown from the U.S. while in possession of a return ticket, and can show that I’ve never been asked for additional documentation. Some people will purchase either a cheap or refundable return ticked specifically for that purpose. I’d advise contacting the customer service of the airline you intend to fly to ask if you will need anything else as long as you have a return ticket (within 90 days from your departure date). I don’t advise going into further detail or explaining your situation so that they don’t flag your name or record.

      I hope this all works out for you. If only the questura would be expeditious AND reliable.

      • Sukhjinder Singh October 25, 2019 at 11:53 am - Reply

        Hi jed my name is Singh I am living in Rome Marino 15 July 2019 my fingerprints and today is 25 October and my permisso do siggorino not ready status is your permisso di siggorino in under discussion any problem

        • Jed November 12, 2019 at 1:30 pm - Reply

          “Under discussion” is a normal status which means it is being processed. In some regions the permesso di soggiorno can take up to six months, even longer in places like Umbria.

  6. Merry July 7, 2019 at 8:32 am - Reply

    am a nigerian his work ends in September but we got married in November to an italian but he is not working , will i be giving permit of stay? Because now the questura are asking for my husband reddito and proof of maintenance. What should I do

    • Jed July 9, 2019 at 10:57 pm - Reply

      A successful permit to stay via marriage is dependent on your husband proving hs has the financial resources/income to cover both of your living expenses at a basic level. Without that, I’m afraid that having only the marriage certificate isn’t going to be enough.

  7. Osagie oghomwenotiti June 24, 2019 at 12:19 am - Reply

    Please i have did fingerprint since 4 months, i try to check if my permit of stay is ready,but the message showing that,no resident permit is reading for the data you enter,please i don’t know what that means, please can you explain that to me.

    • Jed June 24, 2019 at 3:57 pm - Reply

      Two possibilities: 1. Make sure you entered the correct number from your receipt. There are two numbers and, once, I was entering the wrong number and I got a similar message. When I entered the correct number I saw “in process” as the message. Perhaps this is what is happening with you. 2. Less likely, but still a possibility is that your application has gotten misplaced. If you’ve tried both numbers on your receipt and you get no confirmation online that your application is being processed then I recommend that you return to the questura to inquire.

  8. Rishu singh June 17, 2019 at 3:44 am - Reply

    Hi there…I want to know that..about 9 month work permit for Italy …and tell me one thing its very important…it can be extend for 2 year means can I apply for soggiorno after 9 month please reply as soon as

    Thanks and Regards
    Rishu singh

    • Jed June 18, 2019 at 4:21 pm - Reply

      I’m not an expert on work visas, so I recommend that you go to a local CISL office and speak with the person who assists in doing the stay permit applications (first and renewals). Most CISL offices have a person that helps with these applications and is familiar with a wide variety of situations—but usually, such a person is only there one morning a week. I had good luck with the fellow that helped me for three years of making applications.

  9. Essiel June 10, 2019 at 1:53 am - Reply

    Can I travel with my expired soggiorno ,passport and receipt of renewal after posting it or after thumb printing

    • Jed June 18, 2019 at 3:59 pm - Reply

      My understanding, possibly erroneously, is that the receipt can allow travel as long as your NOT transiting another EU country, where they don’t recognize the receipt, and that’s where you can run into problems. Germany and Holland and particularly mindful of people traveling to and from Italy with stay permits and they expect to see a valid permesso in hand. I know people who arrange their travel to and from the U.S. directly to avoid this issue.

  10. Ashima June 5, 2019 at 11:56 am - Reply

    Hi ,
    I am a student here . I had applied for my second year of permesso in September 2018 . Last month I got the message to collect my permesso on 5th June 2019(today) . When I collected it , I saw that my permesso has already been expired a week back . Such unprofessionalism . We pay almost 200 EUR for our permesso and this is how they deal with it .

    • Jed June 18, 2019 at 3:41 pm - Reply

      Yes, unfortunately, this happens and you often get shrugged shoulders in response. I wish I had a solution. My heart goes out to you.

  11. Sameed June 2, 2019 at 12:37 am - Reply

    Hi jed, hope you doin good but i am really depressed about my soggiorno i applied it on 21’st of december 2018 and its been 6 months and yet no good news i have applied it in province of PESARO AND URBINO (PU).I checked it on questora web and even went to them with my problem but they were are like (wait ,wait n wait) i have a little sister alone in my country and i cant go to out !!!!!!!!!

    • Jed June 18, 2019 at 3:39 pm - Reply

      Oh my! I hate hearing this. But, I know the “wait, wait, wait” that you get. The first year it took me so long to get my permesso (in Umbria) I had an Italian called the regional office where the permesso application and renewals go, and he pushed for an answer, which was to tell us where exactly the hold-up was and an ETA. You might try that route if you can get an Italian to call on your behalf! Hope it works out.

  12. tega May 6, 2019 at 9:53 pm - Reply

    Comment…I applied for soggorino on 8march 2019 I was told 40working days, if I checked online he will always say processing I don’t know if they will grant my reguest on time

    • Jed May 8, 2019 at 2:32 pm - Reply

      Hopefully, they will prove to be true to their word and prediction. But, in Italy, these things are slippery (some areas more slippery than others). If you pass the forty days by more than a week, and if the online status message doesn’t change (one year that’s how I found out my permesso was ready, and the promised SMS message didn’t come through) then perhaps you can call the questura or go by. In bocca al lupo!

      • Diane October 19, 2019 at 5:55 am - Reply

        Hello. Thank you for such an informative post. I have been checking and checking my permesso progress and as of 2 weeks ago it was showing ready for collection you will receive an sms with details on collection. I still haven’t received the message so I wanted to find out what your experience has been time wise in waiting for collection once you realised it was ready

        • Jed October 24, 2019 at 11:47 am - Reply

          Hi Diane. This happened to me once and I had a fluent speaker call the questura on my behalf. They told me to come by to get my permesso. I did a screen capture of the status page with the “ready for collection” message and took that along, just in case. Somehow I hadn’t received my SMS, since the questura told me it had been scheduled for pickup the week before and I’d missed the appt.

  13. Ali Rehman April 9, 2019 at 9:53 am - Reply

    hello dear i hope your happy & fine
    i applied for my permiso di soggiorno last 11 months ago but when i am checking it in polizia di stato the reply is=> your permit is on process its always in process from last 11 months i have Carte identa & passport etc but i need soggiorno to vist other countris

    • Jed April 11, 2019 at 2:02 pm - Reply

      Oh my. Have you been to the questura to ask what they expect you to do in this circumstance? I’d take your receipt and a printout from the online website showing it “in process.” Unfortunately, this really does hamper your ability to visit other countries without a problem. I’m so sorry to hear that you’re having this problem.

      • Ali Rehman April 13, 2019 at 1:25 pm - Reply

        when ever i went to questora they only expect that your permit is not pronto but i add all the documents like Home adress,passport,doctor card & carte identa id card

      • Onykach. Arianna June 16, 2019 at 6:20 pm - Reply

        What happen if your Italian resident permit is ready but not pick up in three mouths due to losting you paper to check it

        • Jed June 18, 2019 at 4:15 pm - Reply

          Good question, and one that you’ll have to ask the questura. They may have a time limit. And, if you don’t have your receipt (the same paper you use to check on it) they may not give it to you if they do have it. Best to head to the questura and explain in person (with a native Italian to speak for you).

  14. Subhasree Shil April 1, 2019 at 2:00 pm - Reply

    I have lived in Italy for 6 years. I have permesso di soggiorno. My husband has carta soggiorno & recently, he moved to Germany with his new job. But, this year I have to renew my soggiorno so, I have taken a domestic work then submit all my documents. A few days ago I have finished my fingerprint process & came to Germany to visit / stay with my husband.We are planning to stay permanently in Germany after receiving my soggiorno.
    **Now, as I already completed my fingerprint process, can I cut of my residency & job in Italy?
    Because it is too expensive for us to pay two house rent/month (Germany & Italy).
    And living in two different countries is a problem too..

    • Jed April 2, 2019 at 6:44 pm - Reply

      This might be tricky, that is, to cut off your residency. The challenge will be, I believe, is what happens when and if you want to renew your permesso in Italy. But, perhaps you are looking at transferring your residency to Germany and, if that is the case, then you fall squarely in the rules and stay permits for Germany. Perhaps it is easy to transfer. I just don’t know.

      If you’re considering trying to eventually renew your permesso in Italy in order to bypass the need to do anything in Germany, you could find yourself in a bit of trouble IF the questura/immigration police find out that you haven’t been living in Italy for over half the year (which classifies you as a bonafide resident). But, if you come back to Italy to renew your permesso, it is my understanding that you have to produce a certificato di residenza from the appropriate comune as part of your application——one that is for the current year, which is problematic if someone else is living at your former address. Otherwise, you’d have to establish a new, valid address somehow, inform the comune of your new address and they may send the local police to your new residence to confirm your presence there.

      I’m not an expert on these things, so this is only my opinion based on experience (mine and other people’s). If you can count on one thing it’s that these types of things are often administrated with great inconsistency, though in some regions you can count on them being super precise and “by the book.”

      So, my hope is that, because of your husband’s work status in Germany, you are able to establish residency there without having to try a workaround in Italy, which comes with risks.

      Good luck!

      Jed

      • Subhasree April 11, 2019 at 10:58 am - Reply

        Thank you so much Jed for your reply.
        How many months I can stay in Europe & wait for my soggiorno? Now I have my old soggiorno & stamped receipt which police given me after the fingerprint.

        • Jed April 11, 2019 at 2:07 pm - Reply

          EU countries allow 90 days of stay (includes time in any or all of the EU countries) within a 180 day period. Countries like Germany and Holland are particularly vigilant about checking documents and looking up dates, so be careful. Also, this is for U.S. citizens, and the rules may be different based on what passport you carry. But, once you have your permesso in hand you can travel within other EU states (along with your passport) during the validity of the permesso and as long as you meet the requirements for how much time is left on your passport. Some countries require at least six months. Best to check the specific country. Hope this helps!

          • S.S April 12, 2019 at 4:54 pm

            I was searched in Google & know that Italy & Germany both are in Schengen Zone. So I can travel from Italy to Germany with my passport, old soggiorno card and the new renewal soggiorno receipt.
            Is it true?
            Or I have to go to questura and ask for the ‘soggiorno provvisorio’ ?

          • Jed April 14, 2019 at 11:52 am

            My understanding is that the permesso renewal receipt is not recognized in other Schengen Zone countries. I have friends who were traveling through Germany and had problems with the receipt. I’m not familiar with the soggiorno provvisorio but perhaps that is the best bet. So complicated, isn’t it?

  15. Sepi March 2, 2019 at 6:36 am - Reply

    Jed
    I applied for permesso di soggiorno 3 times in italy,firenze,fortunatly my permesso came soon after one months,around 21 of november 2018 ,but because of I was at berlin for my erasmus ,I couldnt get my visa ,Now after 3 months I want to go to questura to get my permesso ,do you think that ,have they keep for me after three months???if not,what should I do?

    • Jed March 2, 2019 at 5:32 pm - Reply

      I wish I knew the parameters around how long the questura will keep a permesso and where it goes if they don’t keep it. One year, I received the SMS saying my permesso was ready and they gave me a date to pick it up, but I was out of the country. I went to the questura the week after and they still had it. I think that as long as they know you’re coming and you’ve given them a date they’ll hold onto it. But, I doubt they’ll do that indefinitely. My fear is that, after three months they may question a person’s actual presence in Italy and whether a permesso is necessary any longer. I wish I could say I’m an expert on this, and I wish I could say that permesso procedures are implemented with clear, consistent guidelines, but I don’t believe that’s the case. I hope it all works out for you.

  16. Yousseph Walid El Ghoche January 21, 2019 at 6:38 am - Reply

    I have been waiting for more then 6 months and Im staying in Italy For Motivi Familiare thats cause i have a son here from my X , So anyone thinks that they can help on what to do next after waiting all this time , I cant travel out of the country I cant use my Carta sanitari ,If I got sick my dr cant issue nothing , so i dont know what to do next

    • Jed January 21, 2019 at 1:10 pm - Reply

      Thanks for writing and I hope someone who is in a similar situation can offer helpful advice. In which region have you applied for your MOtivi Familiare? In the Treviso region it took approximately forty-five days for me. I know that is fairly speedy. Unfortunately not all regions run as speedily. Have you been monitoring the status on the Polizia di Stato https://questure.poliziadistato.it/stranieri/ and inserted your receipt/application number to see what it shows?
      When I lived in Umbria and was in the yearly peremsso renewal process, during the second year (my first renewal) it was taking so long (almost five months) that I called the regional immigration office in Perugia. I had a native Italian speak with the woman (when we finally got through) and she looked up the number and gave us her estimation of where it was and when it should arrive. If you choose to call be sure to have a fluent speaker handle the call on your behalf in order to tactfully push for answers and to explain your dilemma. For me I mainly wanted assurance that my renewal wasn’t lost (as it seems to have been for Ross who has written on this thread).
      Unfortunately, these processing times are not improving and I sympathize with your plight especially as it affects one’s ability to travel back and forth from the country.
      Jed

    • Aly January 21, 2019 at 1:58 pm - Reply

      Hello Joseph, which city did you apply? Did it take that long in the past?
      Cheers
      Aly

  17. MA A January 18, 2019 at 9:46 am - Reply

    Hello, I have aplplied to renew my PDS at the Questura di trento, after my appointment the lady told me it would take 8mpnths processing time, it has been for 4 months now amd I am till Waiting, anyone has been through PDS renewal in Trento or other regions and got his renewal processed quickly?

    • Aly January 21, 2019 at 1:59 pm - Reply

      Looks like it’s a major issue all over Italy

  18. ROSS DODDS January 4, 2019 at 12:38 pm - Reply

    PERHAPS THIS IS THE TIME FOR A FOLLOW-UP TO MY COMMENTS OF MONTHS AGO.

    IT HAS NOW BEEN ONE YEAR SINCE MY APPLICATION, YES, A YEAR ! I WAS TOLD I WOULD RECEIVE A SECURE CELL PHONE MESSAGE WHEN IT WAS READY. NADA, NO SECURE MESSAGE TO DATE. I WAS TOLD I COULD GO TO THE WEB PAGE POLIZIA DEL STATO, TYPE IN MY FILE NUMBER AND LEARN THE STATUS. I DO THIS ABOUT TWICE EACH MONTH. EACH TIME I AM TOLD, “NO HISTORY OF THIS IN THE SYSTEM”

    I WOULD GUESS I COULD RETURN TO THE QUESTURA, STAND IN LINE FOR THREE HOURS OUTSIDE IN THE FREEZING COLD, ONCE INSIDE STAND IN LINE FOR AN HOUR, GET A NUMBER, SIT AND WAIT FOR HOURS AND ASK FOR AN UPDATE. I GUESS I COULD. NO, I WILL NOT PLAY THESE GAMES. I AM 79 YEARS OLD AND THE PROSPECT IS NOT ONE I CAN ENDURE. THE SYSTEM SUCKS….

    IN THE EIGHT YEARS I HAVE BEEN A RESIDENT OF FLORENCE NO ONE HAS EVER ASKED ME TO PRESENT THE PERMESSO. THE PERMESSO IS ONLY GOOD WHEN YOU WANT TO GET A HEALTH CARD. SO, I PAY CASH FOR MY HEALTH CARE.

    • Jed January 4, 2019 at 2:17 pm - Reply

      Oh my, this is terrible news. Such a message on the website indicates your application is completely MIA. I’ve not come across anyone having such a message once they’ve had their renewal appointment.

      Sounds as though you’ve landed on a strategy of staying without the permesso. My big caution to other people is that the permesso can be crucial to travel in and out of Italy. It’s next to impossible if transiting through another EU country. If the immigration police see (through the computer or through passport stamps) that a person had been in an EU country for more than 90 days in a 180-day window, such a person can be shipped back to one’s country of birth and barred from re-entry.

      So sorry to hear that the permesso process has failed you so badly.

      Jed

    • Fiorella January 16, 2019 at 1:58 am - Reply

      Hi, I know this might not be precisely the topic but since apparently you have been living in italy for a while I was wondering if you knew if you can go out from italy (for tourism) to other schengen countries while waiting for thhe actual card of the permit of stay. As I understood you are not allowed, but in your case for example you werent able to travel for a whole year??
      To add I know that tourists get 90 days when they enter to the European union do you know if while waiting for the permit you are allowed to use these days in order to travel to other european countries? I mean if I went to another continent and came back in january (im still wiating for the permit) would I be allowed to go to france the next month for instance with those 90 days?

      • Jed January 16, 2019 at 6:02 am - Reply

        My understanding is that 90 days within a continuous 180 period can be spread around the EU Schenghen Treaty countries. So, technically you could spend 60 days in Italy, 20 days in France, and 10 days in Germany as long you don’t exceed 90 days. If you’re waiting for your permesso in Italy I’d avoid testing those limits, favoring staying in Italy (with your application receipt) until you have the hard permesso in hand.

  19. ROSS DODDS August 7, 2018 at 4:43 pm - Reply

    I HAVE NOW WAITED 6 MONTHS FOR MY SIXTH PERMESSO. I WAITED IN LINE AT THE QUESTURA FOR FIVE HOURS YESTERDAY. THE LINE WENT AROUND THE BLOCK, THE TEMPERATURE WAS 97F., IN PAST YEARS I HAVE WAITED IN THE RAIN AND SNOW. THE QUESTURA MAKES NO PROVISION FOR THE ELDERLY OR INFIRM, NONE. BE AWARE THAT YOU WILL NOT GET A HEALTH CARD WITHOUT THE PERMESSO HERE IN FLORENCE. AS REGARDS THE LONG DELAY, I WAS TOLD THAT THE INFLUX OF MIGRANTS IS THE REASON, THE SYSTEM IS OVERWHELMED.

    I COULD WRITE A BOOK ABOUT THIS MESS.

    • Jed August 7, 2018 at 11:10 pm - Reply

      Ciao Ross, I can only imagine the book you could write. I’m so distraught to hear that the permesso queue continues to be getting longer and longer. I hope my followers will pay attention to your experience and plan accordingly. The system surely is being taxed with the increase in immigration while government funding and offices simultaneously are experiencing cutbacks. Jed

    • ROSS DODDS December 6, 2018 at 9:54 pm - Reply

      TIME FOR AN UPDATE, FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH. IT IS NOW DECEMBER. THE QUESTURE HAS NOT SENT THE SAINTED CELL PHONE MESSAGE AS PROMISED. NO PERMESSO !

      I CHECK THE POLICE DEL STATO WEB SITE, TYPE IN MY FILE NUMBER ON REGULAR BASIS AND READ,” NO RECORD?” TALK ABOUT LOST TO FOLLOW-UP.

      MY ADVISE TO ALL SOULS FACING THIS IS: SCREW THE PERMESSO. IN SEVEN YEARS NO ONE HAS EVER ASKED TO SEE THE THING. IF ONE DAY THEY COME TO KICK ME OUT I WILL GO WITHOUT A WHIMPER. FAREWELL TO ALL MY DEAR ITALIAN FRIENDS, IT HAS BEEN WONDERFUL…

      ROSS DODDS

      • Jed December 6, 2018 at 11:29 pm - Reply

        I’m so sorry to hear that you’ve had such an abysmal experience with the permesso. Rarely was I asked for mine (I’m now a permanent resident) and when I needed it was to buy a car, get my residency card, and travel through other Schengen countries without incident. Already people have run into issues traveling in Schengen countries with only the renewal receipt. I agree; it’s a frustrating and flawed system! Which region are you in, Ross? It might help other people to know to watch out. Here in Veneto things are processed much more efficiently. I guess it varies considerably from region to region!

  20. Melanie Garthwaite August 31, 2016 at 10:26 am - Reply

    Yes indeed. Novelia always brings everyone together. A very special person!

  21. Melanie Garthwaite August 30, 2016 at 10:22 pm - Reply

    Jed. we woke up this morning in New Zealand and had a right good chuckle reading your recent blog over a nice cup of tea! We could hear the frustration!! We are in the process of buying an apartment in Sulmona. We too struggled to open a bank account in Italy but our friend Carlo took care of everything for us and suddenly it all happened!!
    Norvelia has mentioned that you will be in Sulmona in September. I hope we will still be in Sulmona at that time and will have a chance to meet you. Caio. Mel & John

    • Jed August 31, 2016 at 9:33 am - Reply

      Ciao Mel and John, I’m glad my adventures gave you a good laugh! That’s always the best medicine when one hits a snag in the processes here. I do hope our dates overlap (mid September for me). Novelia is quite the Pied Piper, isn’t she? Jed

  22. Susan Geiger August 30, 2016 at 4:50 pm - Reply

    Jed – it is not only Italy – or Umbria! Yesterday we went to our county offices to start the process(es) for getting a driveway cut permit – which needs an address application. The location that we intend to use is at the end of a road stub – originally designed to continue on into a subdivision which never happened and now has been rezoned to “rural agricultural.” While there, we asked about requirements (hopefully none) for moving a barn that was 3/4 on our property and 1/4 on the builder’s. (Don’t ask!) We bought the barn and got a 5 year easement from him to move it….However, the county gives us until October 26th of this year. Anyway, the building department said that we needed a permit to move the barn based on the fact that it is for horses and hay; not cows, goats, llamas, sheep or pigs (totally). And, because it had been built without a permit, it would need to be inspected by an engineer. (Not good news or a cheap proposition, although it was built to be portable – on 4 big “I” beams that will work as skids.)
    One department later (Planning and Zoning) to verify the “have to move by date” and they have taken sides (with us) on the horses as agriculture status! Two department heads later, and we don’t have to get a permit to move the barn and horses are considered as agriculture in a county that prides itself on its agriculture support!
    Patience – and talking nicely – and showing that we are trying to follow all of the rules, can pay off, as you know! No matter what country you are in!

    • Jed August 30, 2016 at 5:00 pm - Reply

      Wow. I was exhausted reading of your journey to get permissions. Yes, patience and talking nicely goes a long way. I’ve seen people unravel and become demanding – to disastrous results. Hang in there!

  23. Anita August 30, 2016 at 4:35 pm - Reply

    Ciao Jed! Its great to read an inside view of life in Italy for an xpat! Grazie !! Anita

    • Jed August 30, 2016 at 4:57 pm - Reply

      It’s a never-ending journey of discovery and patience. Baci!!!

  24. Linda Dini Jenkins August 30, 2016 at 4:05 pm - Reply

    Jed:

    Oh, I just can’t wait to be spending more time in Italy and having to deal with all this nonsense!!!! I remember how long it took just to get a codice fiscale and then open a bank account!! Novelia called yesterday to say our time in Sulmona might overlap. I am running a tour beginning on 9/17, leaving Sulmona on 10/8. What is your timing? I heard about Nunzio and the sheep . . . can’t wait to see the photos! Linda

    • Jed August 30, 2016 at 4:58 pm - Reply

      Let’s hope the situation is better in other regions! Our trips will overlap, so we’ll be able to meet in Sulmona. Looking forward to it!

  25. Suzy August 30, 2016 at 3:29 pm - Reply

    You are right, I might try Bibbienna, small commune might speed things up the next time. My house in Arezzo, , the apartment is in Florence.

    • Jed August 30, 2016 at 5:01 pm - Reply

      Keep the faith. Let me know how your experience goes!

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